Curse

Randomway Ftw · Jan 20, 2007, 06:37 PM // 18:37

After waiting months ANET has refused to acknowledge that 8v8 is a better gameplay format for HA, in fact it seems that they are doing everything their power to avoid bringing 8v8 back, causing more damage to HA in the process.

In my opinion, almost every single change since when halls became 4 minutes has screwed up HA in some way, the removal of scarred, and lower broken tower timer are the only exceptions.

I think the changes being tested right now are complete BS, it's like ANET has taken all these ideas from the Guild Hall, and PVEers, they have turned HA into an AB style kill them all scrubfest, taking none of their advice from active HA players. Many people constantly QQed about holding builds, but when asked which supposedly uber defensive indestructable holding build was dominating HA they can't answer, or they make a reference to a build that has since been nerfed. I think this is because people feel that they should be able to win halls every time they get to it, they feel the only reason they are unable to cap the altar and win is that they have been cheated by an uber defensive holding build. The same thing happened with other strategies of holding as well, when people were unable to cap because of interupts, or bodyblocking, they QQed about how halls had become a lame interuptfest, yet these same people couldn't be bothered to interupt seeking arrows, or put guardian on their ghost.

The current support for these changes is very similar to the support for the 6v6 change, a lot of GvG, and PVE players like these changes but they never enjoyed HA in the first place, so any change is good for them. Some of these people think any build they cannot kill is a lame holding build. There is some support for the changes in the HA community, but I believe that this is because the changes have provided an escape from the terrible state of HA since the 6v6 change. The scary thing about the changes is that people who enjoyed the old HA appear to have no say, and are shouted down by the screaming masses of PVEers/GvGers who like the changes, because of this it appears that these changes are destined to become permanent. If the changes do become permanent I am done with HA, and maybe done with Guild Wars. In my opinion Anet should revert all the mechanics changes back to the time when we had 5 team halls, keep short courtyard timer, and keep scarred earth removed.

BTW JR please don't move this thread, I want it to be here becaue their are less PVE carebears in the HA section.

Sab · Jan 20, 2007, 07:15 PM // 19:15

Agreed 100%. Pretty much every HAer I've talked to shares the same view as the OP. The devs have to choose between changing HA for HAers, or changing HA for PvE/GvGers. Who are they catering for? Judging by this weekend event, the answer is clear.

Of course some changes have been for the better - like shorter altar matches, and the removal of Scarred Earth, but these are few, and every other change (and *lack* of change, i.e. overdue skill update) have helped devolve HA into what it is today - a total mess (to put it lightly).

What I'm afraid of is the permanence of this weekend event. They've put time and effort into the new mechanics for HA, and I doubt they're going to simply scrap all that and revert HA back to the old days, no matter how loudly we complain. I'm glad that the devs are making an effort into improving HA, but the fact is, the changes are not what HAers want.

Myself, along with many others I've talked to, would prefer a simple reversion to the old 8v8 HA, complete with Blood Spike, IWAY, interruptfests, and you know, that balanced build thing too, given that the current meta is properly balanced (SF, Sandstorm, Jagged Bones, etc). We'd rather put up with that than...this. But judging by the decisions the devs have made so far, I doubt it's ever going to happen. Maybe the devs are too stubborn to realise that they've made a mistake, and tried to patch it up by offering these "new" and "exciting" features, even though we just want the old HA back.

Until HA improves, let us know if you want to hang out in Pre-Searing with most of [Bite]. It's the only place left in the game where the meta isn't broken.

lishi · Jan 20, 2007, 07:19 PM // 19:19

Most of HA player here want get rid of holding build , so at least for this they listened to us.

Quote:

Many people constantly QQed about holding builds, but when asked which supposedly uber defensive indestructable holding build was dominating HA they can't answer, or they make a reference to a build that has since been nerfed.

Hold prenerfed Bloodspike

and i guess( i didnt played at that time) the holding build before Energeting finale nerf.

true both of them got nerfed to decency ( after of 2-3 month of fame farming) but i won't cry on the fact now that kind of build are obsolete.

about the new changes i still have to play them deeply(my current opinion are "they suck").

and about 8v8 my opinion is anet just dont want admit they made a complete obscene error.

Randomway Ftw · Jan 20, 2007, 08:03 PM // 20:03

All builds that allowed people to hold for long amounts of time without much skill have been nerfed, and that is the best way to deal with them. The majority of experienced HA players did not whine about holding builds because they knew this.

ANET shouldn't tear HA limb from limb, in order to appease a few people who QQ about builds that they have trouble killing.

Mr Seph · Jan 20, 2007, 08:12 PM // 20:12

this is anet for you in a nutshell. Its all about pleasing the majority of the community, even if that community doesnt really have interest in HA (cf Pve'ers/Gvg'ers)
And those players happen to be the ones complaining about never being able to win halls, when they get there in the first place.
But, we already knew, that what anet wants, and that what most 'better' HA-players dont want, is a change in mechanics that makes holding impossible.
Imo, anet has driven the 'good' players away from HA/GW with bringing in 6v6.
But with this new change, even more players will get bored of HA.
Like 6v6, in the beginning, everyone likes it, but after a while, people will linger back towards the old HA, the one where it was 8v8. Cuz as far as ive seen, the new update has caused for alot of chaos on altar maps, cuz you have to kill as much as possible in as little time. This kills strategic play imo.
But well, there is prolly nothing we can do about this, since its the majority that votes, and im guessing the PvE'ers/GvG'ers like this change, just like they liked the change to 6v6.
And well, we all know anet doesnt really know much about PvP imo, just look at the skillbalances, Good Job there! Power Leak all the way!

gasmaskman · Jan 20, 2007, 08:18 PM // 20:18

I, too, am sick and tired of how Anet is trying to make 6v6 "work" - and it won't.

Now, there isn't holding, but certain maps are just auto blue wins (Murderball, anyone).

Quote:

But judging by the decisions the devs have made so far, I doubt it's ever going to happen. Maybe the devs are too stubborn to realise that they've made a mistake, and tried to patch it up by offering these "new" and "exciting" features, even though we just want the old HA back.

It's true, and I don't think Anet will just revert HA to 8v8 without some kind of other test weekend or something.

Then, on top of it, their ideas of improvements involve destroying three perfectly fine maps (HoH, BT, Courtyard), and changing the game-type to rely MORE on the build rather than player skill....I really have no hope for HA if they continue with these "improvements"

dirtydutch · Jan 20, 2007, 11:35 PM // 23:35

I totally agree with all you guys. I cannot belief how they balanced the skills (if you can call it a balanced skill update?).

Cant belief what kind off mess there making off ha. Are they ignoring our posts? Are they blind or stupid? I mean there is a topic on off the biggest fan what ppl want and still there doing there own stuff.

I wonder if Ha ever getting fixed (in a good way). Relic rune in ha (how ever you call it) its retarded i think they should think off a diffrent map for that. I have to admit kinda like the ab style in ha. I dont think thats a bad chance its something diffrent for once.

I hope they dont go threw with these chances. Some skills are really horribel.

Randvek · Jan 21, 2007, 12:24 AM // 00:24

Personally, I find people much more willing to take lower ranked people. Viva la 6v6!

stueyman2099 · Jan 21, 2007, 12:57 AM // 00:57

People are taking lower ranked palyers becuase the good players refuse to play this tripe.

I'm gonna have to agree. After months of not having an opinion, I'm gonna say 6v6 is not a good format for this game.

phasola · Jan 21, 2007, 01:39 AM // 01:39

HA has turned into a pile of poop. Months of fighting IWAY & Bspike in 8v8 weren't as boring as playing 1 week of 6v6. I've never played HA again after the first week of 6v6, but from what i see on observer mode, nothing has changed.
Unless they make sigils like 100000000000k HA will turn into a wasteland.

qwe4rty · Jan 21, 2007, 02:09 AM // 02:09

THese changes are not permanent. I believe that while they said there weren't bringing back 8v8 this weekend, it was not a definite no. This is a step in the right direction w/ NON PERMANENT changes to test different things out.

.defekt · Jan 21, 2007, 02:09 AM // 02:09

Wow. Sure, the changes to HA might not be all that great, but THEY WOULDNT MAKE THE CHANGES IN THE FIRST PLACE IF THEY DIDNT CARE.

Randomway Ftw · Jan 21, 2007, 02:31 AM // 02:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by qwe4rty

THese changes are not permanent. I believe that while they said there weren't bringing back 8v8 this weekend, it was not a definite no. This is a step in the right direction w/ NON PERMANENT changes to test different things out.

These changes are a step in the wrong direction, they RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO with the HA system that we wanted to play and instead turn it into something GvGers and PVEers want to play its stupid IMO, and it seems that they are doing it because they don't want to bring 8v8 back.

gladiator888 · Jan 21, 2007, 03:58 AM // 03:58

Speaking from a gvg point of view.

Most gvgers actually loved HoH back in the day, pre spirit spam. They saw it as a gameplay that had a lot of potential, and could be extremely fun. Then, as everyone got to know the game better, faults arose with the system. Most stuck with HoH even after IWAY was rampade. What happened was that a realization that some mechanics of HA were faulty if it were truly to become a competitive gamemode that encouraged skill to dominate. IWAY and bloodspike were easy to get around, but then you get to alter maps and such, and it became extremely easy for a severely less skilled team to win because of their build. In other words, the build dominated the arena and not skill, hence the mass exodus of competitive players to gvg. Before then, generally gvg people wouldn't mind HAing over gvg every once in a while. But the faults of the arena arose, making the arena pretty much a joke.

Anet should have changed the mechanics way before this weekend, but they didn't. Then 6v6 arose, and most gvgers were happy, mainly because it was thought that with fewer people skill would be the deciding factor over build. This obviously didn't happen (defensive builds reigned supreme), and now most gvg-ers actually think it should go back to 8v8, but also think (as they thought before leaving) that some drastic change needed to happen.

I say all that to get to this: I, as a person who prefers gvg, think these changes are a step in the right direction because these are the types of changes that were suggested which would promote the domination of skill rather than build. That is all we want: a competitive alternative that makes skill king (mostly). Ideally, this won't fully take place (by nature, the game requires build to have some factor in determining the victor), but these changes seem to promote a change in the right direction.

Now will 8v8 come back? I'd say let us see how these changes go, and see if more improvement is necessary.

Randomway Ftw · Jan 21, 2007, 04:07 AM // 04:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by gladiator888

Speaking from a gvg point of view.

Most gvgers actually loved HoH back in the day, pre spirit spam. They saw it as a gameplay that had a lot of potential, and could be extremely fun. Then, as everyone got to know the game better, faults arose with the system. Most stuck with HoH even after IWAY was rampade. What happened was that a realization that some mechanics of HA were faulty if it were truly to become a competitive gamemode that encouraged skill to dominate. IWAY and bloodspike were easy to get around, but then you get to alter maps and such, and it became extremely easy for a severely less skilled team to win because of their build. In other words, the build dominated the arena and not skill, hence the mass exodus of competitive players to gvg. Before then, generally gvg people wouldn't mind HAing over gvg every once in a while. But the faults of the arena arose, making the arena pretty much a joke.

Anet should have changed the mechanics way before this weekend, but they didn't. Then 6v6 arose, and most gvgers were happy, mainly because it was thought that with fewer people skill would be the deciding factor over build. This obviously didn't happen (defensive builds reigned supreme), and now most gvg-ers actually think it should go back to 8v8, but also think (as they thought before leaving) that some drastic change needed to happen.

I say all that to get to this: I, as a person who prefers gvg, think these changes are a step in the right direction because these are the types of changes that were suggested which would promote the domination of skill rather than build. That is all we want: a competitive alternative that makes skill king (mostly). Ideally, this won't fully take place (by nature, the game requires build to have some factor in determining the victor), but these changes seem to promote a change in the right direction.

Now will 8v8 come back? I'd say let us see how these changes go, and see if more improvement is necessary.

HA should not be changed to what GvGers want, it should be the way the people who actualy liked it want it, end of story.

Gimmicks are present and can be very effective in gvg, IWAY has got to #3 on the ladder.

B Ephekt · Jan 21, 2007, 04:23 AM // 04:23

The latest updates are a step in the right direction, the problem is that Anet has gone so far in the wrong direction it's hard to notice any forward progression. The new updates are fine imo, but where are the new maps? And what's with swapping one removed map for another?

I'll admit that tombs has been more fun this weekend than any point since 6v6, but there is still very little reason to chose tombs over GvG when I'm constantly frustrated by the stupid 6 player limit.

Please stop trying to save face and just reinstate 8v8, adjust the updates for the party size, and add some new maps.

Quote:

HA should not be changed to what GvGers want, it should be the way the people who actually liked it want it, end of story.

This is a pretty arrogant and childish attitude to take. I'm a GvGer and want an 8v8 tombs, because I used to enjoy the arena prior to the 6v6 nerf. Anet should ignore drivel like this and create an arena that appeals to everyone.

gladiator888 · Jan 21, 2007, 04:33 AM // 04:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randomway Ftw

HA should not be changed to what GvGers want, it should be the way the people who actualy liked it want it, end of story.

Gimmicks are present and can be very effective in gvg, IWAY has got to #3 on the ladder.

You fail to recognize that what I said is that we gvgers did HA fairly often until it went to crap. Gvgers just want to pvp competitively, and that's it. If anet wants Ha to be taken serious as a competitive mode of play, it needs to change. Given the fact that anet has promoted HA as a tournament to show who the best is in the world at a specific time, I'd say they want it to be competitive.

Also, I know gimmicks are present and can be effective in gvg. That doesn't mean it should be there. We just want a game where skill dominates. Are you telling me that you prefer a game that encourages a system where the better person is just as likely not to win? HA should be what anet wanted pvp to be, adn what this game to be....a game about skill first and foremost. Factors that hinder that should be eliminated.

Legendary Shiz · Jan 21, 2007, 07:45 AM // 07:45

They did some thing right. Scarred Earth is no more! And they brought back the mounds.

To be honest though, even if Anet does change it back to 8v8 the complaining won't stop. It'll change from the people who DO HA a lot complaining to the PvE'ers and GvG people that get angry because of the change and make petitions to revert it back to 6v6. I do hope for the change, but reguardless the bickering will never stop.

Ganks · Jan 21, 2007, 07:46 AM // 07:46

I think you guys should just face the facts that HA is on a backburner for a while. Why though? Doesnt make sense. But its been there for a while now. I dont even bother with pubbing HA ill only bother if my guild or alliance is doing it. its absolutely pointless if you ask me. Maybe I only say that because I havent unlocked every skill in the game like some of you but if you look at it from Anets point of view there is a lot of constant whining and bickering going on in HA on a regular basis. Why shouldnt they cater to PvE/GvG? Putting PvE aside entirely anyway there hasnt been bickering or constant debate in GvG on the same scale as HA since the first flavor. HA is full of arrogant fame farmers anyway and rarely does fame mean anything anyway so truthfully only GvG really matters and since RA and TA are designed for faction farming... HA is pretty much pointless.

Baron Von Mons · Jan 21, 2007, 07:46 AM // 07:46

Dave run for president......